Circumcision

[winegums]

if an uncircumsised baby gets nappy rash the foreskin is not there to pretect his penis and it can get badly infected and even scar at the end so that the hole needs to be reopened.

maybe that should be another reason to wait until they are old enough to decide for themselves?

I have never known anyone who had the specific issue you are mentioning...and most men around her are circumcised as infants. I think thats there are potential problems with anything...a child could have problems with and circumcised penis or an uncircumcised penis. I have read about issues in both...
-with a circumcised penis, if it is not rolled down and cared for properly (not everyone realizes the proper care for a circumcised penis) the penis can develop adhesions. Also if a circumcised penis is cut to short it can cause painful erection.s
-with an uncircumcised penis, the foreskin can occasionally grow over the tip making peeing painful and requiring circumcision at that point. I have also heard of cases with uncircumcised penis's where the foreskin becomes too tight and constricts the penis (especially during erections) is quite painful and requires surgery.

So as you can see both have pros and cons...neither of which appear often or in most cases. Most uncircumcised penises (I assume...as most ppl I know are circumcised) have little or no issues and most circumcised penises have little or no issues.

yeh but see them problems with uncircumcised penis up there......... thats why some people have to circumcise for MEDICAL reasons.

the thing i was referring to (googled it to find the name) is balanitis. usually the penis is protected by the foreskin though in bad cases cirumcisim may be done anyway. however if the child is already circumcised there is nothing to protect it to begin with and it causes more problems with a circumcised penis.

just because you dont know anyone that has been effected doesnt mean it doesnt happen? i dont know anyone with aids but actually quite a few people are effected by it!!

 

[surprisepreg]

if an uncircumsised baby gets nappy rash the foreskin is not there to pretect his penis and it can get badly infected and even scar at the end so that the hole needs to be reopened.

maybe that should be another reason to wait until they are old enough to decide for themselves?

I have never known anyone who had the specific issue you are mentioning...and most men around her are circumcised as infants. I think thats there are potential problems with anything...a child could have problems with and circumcised penis or an uncircumcised penis. I have read about issues in both...
-with a circumcised penis, if it is not rolled down and cared for properly (not everyone realizes the proper care for a circumcised penis) the penis can develop adhesions. Also if a circumcised penis is cut to short it can cause painful erection.s
-with an uncircumcised penis, the foreskin can occasionally grow over the tip making peeing painful and requiring circumcision at that point. I have also heard of cases with uncircumcised penis's where the foreskin becomes too tight and constricts the penis (especially during erections) is quite painful and requires surgery.

So as you can see both have pros and cons...neither of which appear often or in most cases. Most uncircumcised penises (I assume...as most ppl I know are circumcised) have little or no issues and most circumcised penises have little or no issues.

yeh but see them problems with uncircumcised penis up there......... thats why some people have to circumcise for MEDICAL reasons.

the thing i was referring to (googled it to find the name) is balanitis. usually the penis is protected by the foreskin though in bad cases cirumcisim may be done anyway. however if the child is already circumcised there is nothing to protect it to begin with and it causes more problems with a circumcised penis.

just because you dont know anyone that has been effected doesnt mean it doesnt happen? i dont know anyone with aids but actually quite a few people are effected by it!!

I NEVER said it couldnt happen. I said it hadnt happened to anyone I personally knew...which I believe is a fair and honest statement to make.

I am not for or against circumcision...but I do come from a country where it is often done to newborn infant males...and all im saying is that most of the time you dont have complications...just as I am ASSUMING most of the time uncircumcised penises also do not have complications.

Everything has a potential for risks...and that is all I was stating.... I am not pro or con circumcision and have not decided what to do with my son when he is born.

I do have a little boy who I adopted (he was my friends and she couldnt take care of him) he was circumcised at birth and had no issues with it. They left extra room for him to "grow into" which makes him look only partially circumcised... lol This was done before any talk of me adopting him had happen- although he (as well as his biological mother) was living with me and my family at birth. If it had been my choice, I dont know if I would have circumcised him...just as im not sure what to do with my unborn son...although I am leading more towards not circumcising him.

 

[debsbaby]

the statement about the reasons for circumcision by P. Weiss is also a statement made by him personally, not a statement of scientific fact.

Not saying either is correct - but one of the main premises of science is critical investigation, not immediate superficial belief.

You are incorrect. Here is a link to the article itself published on a website, and you can see (and further read) at the bottom the 67 sources he cited in the article, many of which are pediatric, medical and scientific journals.

https://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html

Actually, you are incorrect. I didn't say that the author didn't review articles before making his statement. What I did say, was that the statement that you quoted was not a direct citation from other studies. The statement that you quoted was something that he, himself said, making it his subjective interpretation of the literature.

The reasons he stated for circumcision were all cited. The fact that circumcision has been around a LONG time, but the reasons to keep doing it keep changing is the part he has very accurately deducted. Circumcision is not the only practice that has had reasons it is performed revised to continue some practice that should be halted. Profits make it difficult to get the very people behind the majority of the research to agree it needs to be abandoned.

The point behind a research paper is to take fact and put it together to state your case or make a point using logic and fact. He comes to this conclusion through a volume of information that only someone determined to argue FOR circumcision would find fault with.

 

[surprisepreg]

Hey,

I would also like to make a comment in regards to adult men in the U.S. choosing to get circumcised. Once again I am NOT saying that I agree or disagree with circumcision....but I am trying to take an unbiased view on circumcision specifically in the U.S. as that is where I am from.

I have personally known 3 men who chose to get circumcised as adults. I have also heard of a couple more through friends. The men I personally know chose to do so for personal reasons and one for medical reasons...but all of them feel that there sex life has not been hindered by the circumcision... of course I dont know how honest they are being.

One of my friends claims sex is better now as before he was too sensitive and had trouble dealing with certain aspects of sex. He says it is now much more comfortable.

I do believe that the fact that most men in the U.S. are circumcised def played a role in this..although none of them have admitted that to me.

As I have stated before I think circumcising for cosmetic appeal is a silly reason...but I am just pointing out that in the U.S. (where it is often done and is covered by medical insurance) many people still choose to do it.

I am still leaning towards not circumcising...but I wish I knew what my son would want in the future..as circumcision as an infant is supposed to be less risky then as an adult. Too bad I cant see the future or read his mind...huh?
lol

 

[marinewife101]

Yes we will have our son circumcised it runs in our families and we feel its cleaner and easier to take care of.. our choice tho.. we will get it done at the hospital after birth and before we return home..

 

[debsbaby]

H

I am still leaning towards not circumcising...but I wish I knew what my son would want in the future..as circumcision as an infant is supposed to be less risky then as an adult. Too bad I cant see the future or read his mind...huh?
lol

Excellent reasons NOT to circumcise. You still give him that option if he wants it and his choice has not been taken away.

You mention men who have chosen circumcision as adults in the U.S. I am also in the U.S. While this subject isn't really one that would have much reason to come up, I have found that since I chose to keep my older son intact (he is now 14) that has opened up communication with a few people. I have never once had a man tell me he was happy that he was circumcised, though quite a few have applauded my decision with my son and told me they wish they hadn't been automatically circ'd as babies and would love to be intact.

While men certainly seem to get ample pleasure whether circ'ed or intact, I have had the privilege (rare here in America!) of two different intact partners. I MUCH prefered the intercourse with them and if I had my say in the matter, I'd make sure any partner in my future was intact. I never had the irritation and discomfort that was often a problem with circ'd men. Having a penis with "moving parts" is definitely a plus! We women get the blame by being "too dry" when there is too much friction, but the fact is, with an intact penis, very little moisture is needed.

 

[blinkybaby]

H

I am still leaning towards not circumcising...but I wish I knew what my son would want in the future..as circumcision as an infant is supposed to be less risky then as an adult. Too bad I cant see the future or read his mind...huh?
lol

Excellent reasons NOT to circumcise. You still give him that option if he wants it and his choice has not been taken away.

You mention men who have chosen circumcision as adults in the U.S. I am also in the U.S. While this subject isn't really one that would have much reason to come up, I have found that since I chose to keep my older son intact (he is now 14) that has opened up communication with a few people. I have never once had a man tell me he was happy that he was circumcised, though quite a few have applauded my decision with my son and told me they wish they hadn't been automatically circ'd as babies and would love to be intact.

While men certainly seem to get ample pleasure whether circ'ed or intact, I have had the privilege (rare here in America!) of two different intact partners. I MUCH prefered the intercourse with them and if I had my say in the matter, I'd make sure any partner in my future was intact. I never had the irritation and discomfort that was often a problem with circ'd men. Having a penis with "moving parts" is definitely a plus! We women get the blame by being "too dry" when there is too much friction, but the fact is, with an intact penis, very little moisture is needed.

I've been with 2 people in my life, one was circumcised and the other (my OH) is intact. I enjoy sex more with my current partner for the reasons you have already stated (sex is more comfortable and less friction). My previous partner didn't have any problems with feeling sexual pleasure at all (in fact he seemed more excitable and finished quicker than my current OH! But to be fair that's something that comes with experience and we were both young.) But who can really say if his physical enjoyment of sex was diminished by being circumcised - certainly if you look at the science of it, it seems like it should have been, but he never had any problems.

I definitely think that it's a big decision to make on behalf of your child and if there's any doubt at all in your mind, you should refrain. xx

 

[aob1013]

Just said to my OH, 'If you had been circ as a baby how would you feel now?'
He said 'Unless for medical reasons i would be pissed off! I wouldn't have had a choice, how is that fair. Even for religious reasons, i have my own brain and i may not want to be in that religion'.

Says it all really.

 

[surprisepreg]

Just said to my OH, 'If you had been circ as a baby how would you feel now?'
He said 'Unless for medical reasons i would be pissed off! I wouldn't have had a choice, how is that fair. Even for religious reasons, i have my own brain and i may not want to be in that religion'.

Says it all really.

Hey,
I totally understand what your saying...but I just want to point out that your from an area where ppl dont really circumcise but im from an area where people do routinely circumcise. Once again...im not saying if its right or wrong...I am just saying there is a cultural difference.

Its actually very interesting to see the cultural difference... when I ask ppl in the U.S. there views on circumcision the MAJORITY of them feel it should be done (including males). But the majority of people ive talked to who are from other countries (specifically the UK) are anti circumcision. It shows that what you have been brought up to know def influences your choices.

I actually didnt realize how many people around here are pro circumcision until I started doing research. And im not agreeing with it...im just stating an observation. lol

 

[Raspberries]

Wow, amazingly this has turned into a debate sort of.

I guess its just the differences from where you come from. In the US, from what I've read, it seems to be the norm. In the UK, its a very uncommon thing unless for medical purposes.

Tbh, its upto the parents to decide. If you want your boy circumcised, do it. If you don't, don't. I don't see why people are making a big deal out of it and trying to sway other's opinions?

I personally believe it's unnecessary unless for medical purposes, but it doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to circumcise their son. Its just my opinion. However, I don't think it's right to keep 'debating' it. Aslong as you're happy with your decision on your child, it's fine

 

[debsbaby]

Just said to my OH, 'If you had been circ as a baby how would you feel now?'
He said 'Unless for medical reasons i would be pissed off! I wouldn't have had a choice, how is that fair. Even for religious reasons, i have my own brain and i may not want to be in that religion'.

Says it all really.

Hey,
I totally understand what your saying...but I just want to point out that your from an area where ppl dont really circumcise but im from an area where people do routinely circumcise. Once again...im not saying if its right or wrong...I am just saying there is a cultural difference.

Its actually very interesting to see the cultural difference... when I ask ppl in the U.S. there views on circumcision the MAJORITY of them feel it should be done (including males). But the majority of people ive talked to who are from other countries (specifically the UK) are anti circumcision. It shows that what you have been brought up to know def influences your choices.

I actually didnt realize how many people around here are pro circumcision until I started doing research. And im not agreeing with it...im just stating an observation. lol

I agree, it is definitely cultural and people tend to follow custom (whether deliberately or blindly), but clinging tenaciously and irrationally to customary practices can be very harmful (thank goodness many cultural and customary past traditions have been abandoned!).

I am from the southeastern U.S. where we probably have some of the highest circ rates. When expecting my older son, I decided to do some research. I am glad I did, and didn't blindly follow the sheep to lead my son's foreskin to "slaughter".

 

[surprisepreg]

I agree, it is definitely cultural and people tend to follow custom (whether deliberately or blindly), but clinging tenaciously and irrationally to customary practices can be very harmful (thank goodness many cultural and customary past traditions have been abandoned!).

I am from the southeastern U.S. where we probably have some of the highest circ rates. When expecting my older son, I decided to do some research. I am glad I did, and didn't blindly follow the sheep to lead my son's foreskin to "slaughter".

Ive been doing lots of research on it as well and I am not just "following the crowed" and doing it". lol I am trying to made a informed, educated decision.

 

[I_AM_LIVID]

I was merely stating that the results could be misinterpreted, which is likely in some countries such as Africa, where some people unfortunately still think you can avoid catching AIDS by showering after sex or that you can't pass on AIDS if you are being treated for it!

I think many circumstised men still get sti's, how ridiculous thinking that cutting off foreskin, will make them immune. Otherwise countres like Africa would be using this to battle against aids.

If it was of true healthcare advantages, it would be made compulsory.

Sorry, I had to laugh at these statements. Just to correct you, Africa is not a country, it is a continent (but don't worry, it is not the first time the second largest continent in the world has been confused for a country by first world countries).

Secondly, just wanted to point out that large regions in Africa do in fact use circumcision to fight the HIV/Aids pandemic. In fact, despite our high HIV/Aids prevalence rate, numerous studies have concluded that the statistics of infected persons would have been higher if the general male population were not circumcised. I can post links of a few studies, but I think it would be irrelevant unless someone is genuinely interested in the subject (if anyone is interested, let me know and I will do so).

So yes, while general hygiene and education is enough in some parts of the world, in Africa, it is simply not the case because of the lack of access to clean drinking water in some regions and cultures that tolerate and practice polygamy. Tis sad, but to really understand it, you have to be an African or at least be exposed to the mentality of most African men.

 

[I_AM_LIVID]

I also wanted to point out something that was overlooked on this thread. While it has been concluded that circumcision is a norm in the US and that is hardly practiced in the UK, I find it fascinating that some people from the UK who are not considering the procedure find it inexcusable and not enough reason to ‘follow the norm’ when that is exactly what they themselves are doing.

I mean, if something is or isn’t generally practiced where you come from, and you jump on the same bandwagon, aren’t you than also following the norm? I remember when OH (who is from Portugal and is not circumcised) and I were discussing this subject, he too was adamant that his son will not undergo the procedure. When I asked him why, his initial response was “because it is not normal where I come from”. In fact, he wasn’t even aware of studies done that it reduced STDs by over 50%. Although he is generally well informed on different subjects and is a great debater during Sunday dinners, he simply never thought to research circumcision because having his son circumcised was never an option in his mind.

As someone that is on the fence on the circumcision debate and whether I should or shouldn’t cc my son, I’m of the opinion that there are reasonable and valid arguments pro and anti circumcision, depending on which side of the fence you are.

So, despite what your feelings are on the matter, I think everyone should do what they think is best for THEIR children and leave other mummies to their decisions as I doubt those decisions will directly affect you or your children. I think it is important that we remain civilized and refrain from making insulting comments to people with different opinions.

 

[blinkybaby]

I agree, it is definitely cultural and people tend to follow custom (whether deliberately or blindly), but clinging tenaciously and irrationally to customary practices can be very harmful (thank goodness many cultural and customary past traditions have been abandoned!).

I am from the southeastern U.S. where we probably have some of the highest circ rates. When expecting my older son, I decided to do some research. I am glad I did, and didn't blindly follow the sheep to lead my son's foreskin to "slaughter".

Ive been doing lots of research on it as well and I am not just "following the crowed" and doing it". lol I am trying to made a informed, educated decision.

Why are you laughing at these comments - because a mistake was made by calling Africa a country instead of a continent? Or because of what is being said? Either way - it's not very kind to laugh at another persons opinion, is it?

You go on to say we should be civilised and not insulting about other people's opinions in your next post - however you laughing at MY opinion is belittling and insulting.

And I have a genuine question - why does access to clean drinking water have a bearing on the spread of AIDS? x

 

[blinkybaby]

I was merely stating that the results could be misinterpreted, which is likely in some countries such as Africa, where some people unfortunately still think you can avoid catching AIDS by showering after sex or that you can't pass on AIDS if you are being treated for it!

I think many circumstised men still get sti's, how ridiculous thinking that cutting off foreskin, will make them immune. Otherwise countres like Africa would be using this to battle against aids.

If it was of true healthcare advantages, it would be made compulsory.

Sorry, I had to laugh at these statements. Just to correct you, Africa is not a country, it is a continent (but don't worry, it is not the first time the second largest continent in the world has been confused for a country by first world countries).

Secondly, just wanted to point out that large regions in Africa do in fact use circumcision to fight the HIV/Aids pandemic. In fact, despite our high HIV/Aids prevalence rate, numerous studies have concluded that the statistics of infected persons would have been higher if the general male population were not circumcised. I can post links of a few studies, but I think it would be irrelevant unless someone is genuinely interested in the subject (if anyone is interested, let me know and I will do so).

So yes, while general hygiene and education is enough in some parts of the world, in Africa, it is simply not the case because of the lack of access to clean drinking water in some regions and cultures that tolerate and practice polygamy. Tis sad, but to really understand it, you have to be an African or at least be exposed to the mentality of most African men.

Sorry guys I meant to quote this poster as above x

 

[ethansmommy]

i'm having a boy and going to circumcise. i see it as more hygenic.

 

[I_AM_LIVID]

I agree, it is definitely cultural and people tend to follow custom (whether deliberately or blindly), but clinging tenaciously and irrationally to customary practices can be very harmful (thank goodness many cultural and customary past traditions have been abandoned!).

I am from the southeastern U.S. where we probably have some of the highest circ rates. When expecting my older son, I decided to do some research. I am glad I did, and didn't blindly follow the sheep to lead my son's foreskin to "slaughter".

Ive been doing lots of research on it as well and I am not just "following the crowed" and doing it". lol I am trying to made a informed, educated decision.

Why are you laughing at these comments - because a mistake was made by calling Africa a country instead of a continent? Or because of what is being said? Either way - it's not very kind to laugh at another persons opinion, is it?

You go on to say we should be civilised and not insulting about other people's opinions in your next post - however you laughing at MY opinion is belittling and insulting.

And I have a genuine question - why does access to clean drinking water have a bearing on the spread of AIDS? x

Yes, I was laughing at the calling Africa a country (hence the reason I highlighted it) . As to why it is funny, well, it's a common mistake that is often made, and it always cracks me up (and not funny in a demeaning way). Was not laughing at your opinion on the subject at all. I was actually addressing loopylass in my second and third paragraph because of what she said in the part I highlighted. In fact, tis unfortunate that you concluded that I was insulting you as I tend to agree with what you said about showers.

You are right, some Africans are convinced that taking a shower after unprotected sex prevents HIV/Aids (thanks mainly to our current polygamist president this misconception has spread) and that is why I was saying education alone is not enough in Africa. There's generally a poor mentality about protected sex here and this is only made worse when our political leaders who should be better educated on HIV/Aids display poor public conduct and make remarks that contribute to ignorance, e.g some years back our Heath Minister said a proper diet can cure Aids (I kid you not).

As for not having access to clean drinking water... I was trying to illustrate that in Africa it is not as simple as saying ‘hygiene is not a good enough reason to cc because all you need is soap and water’. Well, not everyone in third world countries has access to water, let alone soap, and therefore cannot ‘maintain’ clean manly bits and so a lot of “dirt” (for a lack of a medical term) gets trapped in the foreskin of uncircumcised men.

Hope that cleared that up and no one else accuses me of belittling their opinion.

 

[twinmummy5]

if men cant keep un-cc cleaned with lack of clean water how are they keeping cc cleaned after the surgery???

 

[winegums]

https://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/gmas/ :

"I never saw anything wrong with it either until I witnessed my own son being circumcised. The doctor assured me it was a simple little snip of extra skin that had no function and that really didn't hurt the infant. "You want him to look like you, don't you?" Well, since I really hadn't thought much about it, and since I, too, had gone under the knife at birth, I said "Sure. I guess so. Why not?"

He didn't answer the "Why not?" but it was soon apparent to me. My newborn son was taken from his mother's warm, nourishing breast and placed naked on a cold, plastic board called a Circumstraint. His little legs were spread-eagled and strapped down with Velcro bands and his arms were strapped to his sides. He immediately protested and began to cry. The doctor draped a thin cloth with a hole in the center over his shivering body and drew his little penis through the hole.

The doctor washed my baby's penis with an antiseptic solution. He took a pair of steel hemostats and, holding the penis in one hand, inserted the tip of the hemostat into the opening of the foreskin and began pushing it between the foreskin and the glans, ripping the two structures apart. The foreskin and glans were tightly fused together by the normal balanopreputial membrane called the synechia, similar to the membrane that attaches the fingernail to the finger. It's the body's way, in part, of protecting against harmful bacteria.

My baby was shrieking now, his protest going from a simple cry to what sounded like screams of sheer terror. His body was rigid, contorted as he strained against the straps and the pain. If the Circumstraint had not been bolted down, it and my child would have crashed to the floor. Every instinct I had told me this was not right, that I should be protecting my son instead of acquiescing to the barbaric spectacle before me. But I am a "civilized" man. I have been socialized to accept what the doctor is doing. It's the right thing to do. Right?

The foreskin did not easily give up its hold on my son's glans. The doctor continued to rip the skin with the hemostat. My son was shaking, tossing his head from side to side, his fists and eyes were clenched, sweat beaded on his brow.

The doctor finally got the glans and foreskin separated, then clamped the foreskin tight with another hemostat and cut the skin vertically with scissors. The wound was bleeding profusely. He tried to insert a steel cone into the tissue but had to force it because the incision was too short. My son stopped screaming. His eyes were glazed and rolled back. He appeared to be sleeping, but he was really in a state of complete and total shock.

The doctor put a large metal clamp around the bleeding foreskin, the cone supposedly to protect the glans, and he proceeded to crush the nerves, the blood vessels and tissue of the foreskin with the clamp. He took a knife and sliced around the clamp, letting the foreskin drop onto the cloth. My son lay motionless on the board, completely disassociated into some other, more hospitable space. The doctor looked at me and winked. He left the room. A nurse gave my son back to his mother. Welcome to America, little man. "